::Revisiting:: Suggestions

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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 11 Dec 2017, 13:48

What you want to have to find three different recipe items instead of one? :?
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 11 Dec 2017, 20:30

It's more that you have replaced an item with a very similar, but less powerful version. And please don't use the argument that you can just rune it with regen, as Major Runes are very rare (and you may just roll a 1). If it ain't broke...

Instead of removing RoP's and replacing them with something similar, how about making a new line of very different craftable rings? As a suggestion:

Enhanced Ring of Divinity
-5% Spell Failure
5% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+1 to all saves

Superior Ring of Divinity
-10% Spell Failure
10% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+2 to all saves

Peerless Ring of Divinity
-15% Spell Failure
15% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+3 to all saves

Superlative Ring of Divinity
-20% Spell Failure
20% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+4 to all saves
Divine Favour 1/day(15)
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 11 Dec 2017, 21:47

Other than the suggested item being shocking bad, you mean? :P

I just don't see any reason for 8 out of 9 craftable rings to have regeneration on them.
If a ring needs a small amount of regen on it to be good, then it is broke.
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 11 Dec 2017, 21:52

I guess regen is on so many items because it is a valuable asset and people really like it. Isn't part of your job keeping people happy? :P

What did you think of the suggested new line of rings?
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Dec 2017, 09:54

I have to give people what the need, not what they want. Sometimes people want things that will be bad in the long term. Part of my job is carefully assessing things to avoid future problems. I'm being conservative with changes because keeping people happy also means not making anything super OP that then has to be nerfed in future.
Musty did a great job with the crafted items, but with hindsight and more experience he realised a few of them were not balanced. Stat rings were possibly the worst ones. Even without the True Seeing on them, they are still OP. But I decided to leave them as is, and just not give them a mythic upgrade. Keeping people happy means keeping the challenge of the game in a sweet spot between too easy and too hard. Any change in any direction can mess that up, so I have to be really careful.

As for your suggested item: Its an interesting idea but its too weak. Would you even use this?
Negative damage is pretty rare outside of specific places. Positive damage is basically unused. Those immunity values could be 5% higher without issue.
Spell Failure reduction values are fine, but its a niche stat that is needed all the time, not situationally.
Saves are fine.
Spells are cosmetic.
Mythic version should have 5/- divine resist. :D

There is definitely room for a ring shake up in future (Ring of the Rogue: Why do we have a ring for a single class???) but at the moment I think we need to spend time refining existing content. I'm going to make some tweaks to 3 item lines shortly, including the Power rings.
I'm thinking about moving the Freedom of Movement earlier (it got bumped up to the Mythic level ring), shifting a couple of feats later and upping the resist value on the Mythic ring. eg:
Lesser Ring of Inner Power: Spell Penetration, Spec Unarmed. 5/- fire/cold/elec resist.
Moderate Ring of Inner Power: Spell Penetration, Spec Unarmed. 10/- fire/cold/elec resist. -5% arcane failure.
Greater Ring of Inner Power: Spell Penetration, Spec Unarmed. 15/- fire/cold/elec/acid resist. -10% arcane failure. Freedom of Movement.
Epic Ring of Inner Power: Spell Penetration, Spec Unarmed, Extra Turning, Knockdown. 20/- fire/cold/elec/acid/sonic resist. -15% arcane failure. Freedom of Movement.
Mythic Ring of Inner Power: Spell Penetration, Spec Unarmed, Extra Turning, Knockdown. 30/- fire/cold/elec/acid/sonic resist. -20% arcane failure. Freedom of Movement.
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 12 Dec 2017, 16:58

André Axe'm wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 09:54
I have to give people what the need, not what they want. Sometimes people want things that will be bad in the long term.
I totally get that, but in terms of Ring of Power, which was around before the Mythic Content, how can they be viewed in that light? They are certainly not amongst the most powerful items in the server. The nerf to those and Dragon Helms doesn't really make sense. They have both been around long before Mythic Content, are useful items that people have enjoyed for years. Have they somehow made that Mythic content too easy? I'm afraid I can't see how. It is builds more than items that break the difficulty balance (looking at you, Rakshasa/Water Elemental Shifter, Warlocks that can turn Omadon into a chicken, Shaman that can Freeze Omadon...)
André Axe'm wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 09:54
Keeping people happy means keeping the challenge of the game in a sweet spot between too easy and too hard. Any change in any direction can mess that up, so I have to be really careful.
I think the changes you made to RoP and Dragon Helms are going to make the already very difficult Mythic Content even harder.

For you Ring of Inner Strength, what is the point of the bonus feats? Anyone who would use Knockdown would already have taken the feat, surely? Same with anything to do with Unarmed combat and Spell Penetration.
André Axe'm wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 09:54
As for your suggested item: Its an interesting idea but its too weak. Would you even use this?
It's funny, I was trying not too make it over the top, because I know you are concerned about power creep. The Negative Energy Immunity would be great, especially in Mythic Content where so many things use Harm. But I agree, the rings could probably use a little bump... Just upped some of the numbers. I would use this, depending on the build.

Enhanced Ring of Divinity
-10% Spell Failure
10% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+2 to all saves

Superior Ring of Divinity
-15% Spell Failure
15% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+3 to all saves

Peerless Ring of Divinity
-20% Spell Failure
20% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+4 to all saves

Superlative Ring of Divinity
-25% Spell Failure
25% Negative, Positive Immunity
Protection from Evil 1/day
+5 to all saves
Divine Favour 1/day(15)
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Dec 2017, 17:59

The feats are to give some sort of "Power" since the ring doesn't really give anything. I might have to do something hacky to make them stack with existing ones.
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Dec 2017, 18:43

BTW: If you think the 2.5 regen from the old Dragon Helms actually helped with Mythic content, try a Scroll of Regeneration. It will blow your mind...
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Sapphire
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Sapphire » 12 Dec 2017, 19:09

Scrolls of regeneration or indeed the actual spell of regeneration or its monstrous version are limited by time/duration where a regen stat on an item lasts forever there is the difference... Personally I would prefer having it on an item rather than relying on class ability to access spells or UMD to be able to access such...
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Dec 2017, 20:04

Yeah, but your Spellcraft/UMD now boosts the caster level so more duration and dispel resistance.
(Not certain on the dispel resistance. Code is dodgy there, sorry.)
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 12 Dec 2017, 20:41

Couldn't agree more, Sapphire.
André Axe'm wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 17:59
The feats are to give some sort of "Power" since the ring doesn't really give anything. I might have to do something hacky to make them stack with existing ones.
To be frank; that sounds like a lot of work... Surely there are more pressing uses for your valuable time than fiddling around with such things when a popular item could just be reinstated. I know you already have a stack of things in the pipeline. I, for one, would prefer to see the Mythic Craftable items you are working on released beforehand. Or the new items you were going to add to the loot tables, that you got us all to make suggestions for. Are you still planning on using those?

In the meantime, would it hurt to put the old RoP back in?
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 12 Dec 2017, 21:18

André Axe'm wrote:
12 Dec 2017, 09:54
Ring of the Rogue: Why do we have a ring for a single class???
I think we need them. Many of the Chests in Edon have a DC of 80+, which is hard for even a dedicated Dex Rogue with full ranks in Open Lock and some Skill Buff gear.
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Dec 2017, 21:32

That just justifies a ring with Open Locks on it, not one based around Rogueing in general.
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 12 Dec 2017, 22:03

Yep, just so long as we still have something that gives the boost. Currently it is hard to justify spending significant gems on something you only equip when you find a chest with a high DC.
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Iona
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Iona » 12 Dec 2017, 22:27

I agree Fraggermuffin I would like to see the Mythic Crafting stuff Andre planned months ago. Would love to see the reagents etc. in place. Hopefully sort out the schematic progression and crafting should be fixed except for the odd tweak.
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 12 Dec 2017, 22:38

New Suggestion:

Craftable All God's Day Tokens.

Maybe a Mythic Craftable Item. Value increase so it could be sold in store.
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Sapphire
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Sapphire » 04 Jan 2018, 20:35

Am not sure if this already exists in Edon ... It is in the standard NWN files ...
An item called the "Gauntlets of Mirth" with the attributes of +3 Att and 1/day spell of Greater Bulls STR ... So is it available and/or any chance it could be added even as extreme rare find ?
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 04 Jan 2018, 21:01

That item does not exist in the standard NWN files.
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Sapphire
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Sapphire » 04 Jan 2018, 21:15

Okay perhaps was removed but have seen it on many other servers ... If it is seen here as an over powered item then just ignore the suggestion ...
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Fraggermuffin
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Fraggermuffin » 06 Jan 2018, 18:55

I have noticed a lack of Monks taken for more than just a few levels. Are they underpowered in Edon? Could they do with a boost of some sort? Is it that taking them to Epic levels and only getting a feat every 5 levels is not appealing? Is it the medium BAB? Something else?

I also think Epic Barbarians only getting a bonus feat every 4 levels is a bit restricting.

A change to either or both of these classes might see more Epic versions of them.
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Alkarl
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Alkarl » 06 Jan 2018, 20:07

I have a monk at level 40... it got kind of hard to play so I stopped playing for awhile... now I have my lich :D
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Sapphire
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by Sapphire » 07 Jan 2018, 08:26

This is quite odd I would have thought a monk would make a great mage killer with their SR being so high.. Though I would myself go with at least 1 level of SD to bypass the none casters to get to the mages first ..

Barbarians are I believe good at low and up to around level 30 but seems to me that too many mobs are immune to their fear feat of their class which can make a huge difference in any fight... But then they are soon too vulnerable to mages particularly those of scourge types greater and above...
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vorly
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by vorly » 08 Jan 2018, 10:10

The new SR necks I think help those pure fighters manage a bit better against casters. You’ll lose your guaranteed haste item slot and have to rely on finding a useful haste item for your build but it helps overall.

I would like to see the new mythic crafts personally, so I can plan my equipment progression.
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André Axe'm
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by André Axe'm » 08 Jan 2018, 19:56

The SR items are nowhere near what you can get from a decent number of Monk levels though.
And with SR, if it isn't high enough, its actually useless.
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vorly
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Re: ::Revisiting:: Suggestions

Post by vorly » 10 Jan 2018, 21:00

Can we get the Gateway added to wings location please? Would save having to use wand logout to get to gateway to use the chest of NO responsibility for transfer. This is just a wishlist item.
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