Update V8.3

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André Axe'm
Posts: 675
Joined: 03 Dec 2015, 16:59

Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 10 Sep 2018, 14:48

RE the Schematic changes:
These are just description updates to them. Having the new versions doesn't do anything different.
The unlocked schematic levels don't have any new recipes on them, they just allow you to get the +1 crafting level.
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Sapphire
Posts: 368
Joined: 17 May 2016, 21:40
Location: UK England, Midlands

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 11 Sep 2018, 14:46

Highly annoying to find I can no longer make enhanced and greater gems this morning I hope this is going to return in the VERY near future as I find the gem exchanger very expensive for little reward and it seems to me I have wasted 2 schematic levels as well...

Secondly what use to a crafter is being able to find gems faster than anyone else (comment now on schematic 1) As a crafter (dedicated character to crafting) am hardly likely to go out and run around edon killing mobs to find gems... I would like to see a return to where this was yesterday instead of penalising crafters and forcing them to use the expensive exchanger... Personally I would rather have seen an expansion to the ability of the crafter to make peerless and superlative at level 3 schematic requirement ...

I am not a happy bunny over this change and find a detrimental change that is not needed or wanted ...
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André Axe'm
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 11 Sep 2018, 18:30

Being able to bypass the main money sink in the game is not a good thing.

And the Schematic 1 ability is faster collection from mineable minerals, not drops... You know, like most of the other tier 1 schematics do...
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Iona
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Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 11:49

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Iona » 11 Sep 2018, 21:23

Schematic 1 keeps me sane, cuts out all the crass comments, "i can't find anything, hope my chisel doesn't break" etc. Plus you do mine more minerals and save time.

Making gems can be handy but I find it tedious, can only do 1 at a time, so unless am stretched for cash do not use as takes too much time. Time is valuable to a crafter/shopowner.

I would have liked it left alone until the replacement was ready, but do not know what is involved, so hopefully we shall see shortly.

Remember we can choose new schematics once all the new stuff is done.
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Sapphire
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Location: UK England, Midlands

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 11 Sep 2018, 22:57

André Axe'm wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 18:30
Being able to bypass the main money sink in the game is not a good thing.
Whilst I accept faster gem collecting aspect which you mentioned in your earlier post from which the above quote came from... I have to say there is way enough of a money sink already in place at the high end of crafting ...

50k here for the sword another 50k for that shield and yet another for that armour etc etc... Being a dedicated crafter whom went with the schematic's level 1 and 2 so she could acquire enough enhanced and greater gems to help with supplies of her needs for crafting was essiential too keeping costs of crafting down ...

What you have done Andre has drastically increased the costs of crafting ... It takes 27 keen edge gems to make 9 enhanced gems(= 90,000) taking those 9 to make 3 greater gems (= another 60,000) and turn those 3 into a single peerless gem (another 50,000)... Given that sword you want to ungrade to a peerless version already has a charge of 50,000 ... This have effectively multiplied the cost of that crafting to 250,000 gold ... when made and put on the merchants stall its asking price is around 270,000 mark... Not much of incentive to craft in my opinion it is exactly the oppersite...

I am also in agreement with Iona on one point of her post above... The original system should not have been removed till this crippling offensive on the craft was fully ready... It could depending on your available time be weeks or months before you get this version fully implimented...
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André Axe'm
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Sep 2018, 09:59

See that would almost make sense, except that:
It used to cost 100k for a peerless craft...
It used to require 4 greater gems to make a peerless...
As a crafter, you have loads of cash and not much keen gems, so you would just buy the greater gems from the trade merchant anyway...
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Sapphire
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Location: UK England, Midlands

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 12 Sep 2018, 11:00

Nope I have never bought greater gems or enhanced gems or peerless for that matter either from another merchant player or those that I have seen on the scrapper merchants way too expensive ! ... As for gold now am investing in peerless items over last 3 weeks has seen my gold slip from over 5 million to just over 2 million and that is without having to use the over expensive overrated exchanger to convert keen gems upwards ... Fine make it once again 4 to make the next level of gem but at least return the craft to the detailed gem tables and hoist up a 3 schematic for anything better than a greater gem ... Otherwise I for one am going to run out of gold very fast in the new future having costs for making any peerless or above item increased by 5 times what it was ...
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André Axe'm
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 12 Sep 2018, 12:24

So you don't know you can buy the gems from the Craft Merchant then?
And you want me to increase the cost of peerless gems for everyone, but reduce the cost of upgrading keen gems to greater for ~20% of crafters just to make you happy?
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southead
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Joined: 01 Dec 2015, 12:20

Re: Update V8.3

Post by southead » 12 Sep 2018, 12:46

I feel the cost of upgrading keen to enhanced has always been far too expensive. It should be 3-5k gp. This would make it far more affordable to upgrade form keen... I have over 10 bags of keen gems atm simply because I don't want to sink millions of gp into upgrading them.
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Torqcaine
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Joined: 27 Jul 2018, 12:04

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Torqcaine » 12 Sep 2018, 13:28

here i was thinking that the new crafting system was great compared to the old server before it being rebuilt. no longer having to buy gems of abilty, damage and a couple of others i cant remember, also not paying the 100,000 (peerless) 200,000 ( superlative ) ah them were the days.
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Sapphire
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Location: UK England, Midlands

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 12 Sep 2018, 19:39

André Axe'm wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 12:24
So you don't know you can buy the gems from the Craft Merchant then?
And you want me to increase the cost of peerless gems for everyone, but reduce the cost of upgrading keen gems to greater for ~20% of crafters just to make you happy?
Yes I do know you can buy gems of enhancement etc... from the craft merchant option on the scrappers in the trade hall but that is still way too expensive... And would cripple mine and other crafters funds... So what it appears seems to be the theme of this in my opinion, is you aim to do away with crafting altogether by making not worth while doing at all... Thus forcing everyone to go get all their items from those vastly overpricing smelly dwarf's in Emrys emporum...

Basically take this into consideration - "If it ain't broke it didn't need fixing"
Also I am not talking about buying enhanced gems and their superior gem types at all, I am talking about actually using my schematics in gem craft that took me a very long time to achieve to be able to upgrade these gems...

Whats next one begs to ask ! I suppose next on this hit list of nerfing crafters will be the ingot of enhancement, though not a gem to be able to make it saves the crafter who has spent time on ones skills it can be made at much less than what is available on the craft merchant... Currently 50,000 gold there and yet I have exactly the same ingot of enhancement I have made for sale on one of my merchants for a little over 26,000 or my other merchant has sold them in the past for as little as 20,000... So if you also take that away you are yet again saying to crafters you'll have to buy them at the inflated price like everyone else... Just so you can use another excuse to make something else a gold sink on the economy particularly that of crafters...

And your quote of 20% of crafters is an absolute false-negative based purely on the fact that only 20% of crafters have voiced on this forum about it... In game I have spoken to others that have not voiced here and they are though not as vocal as myself find themselves wondering whether to bother at all with schematics particularly in gem crafting as is in topic now... But more generally about any other schematic you might or might not mess around with in a likewise manner in the future...

Throughout this episode you keep refering to my objections as incurring costs on everyone else... I am NOT saying increase the price for the likes of peerless quite the reverse actually... Partically as your the one trying to make both crafters pay into what you refer to as a sink hole for gold, and then using that again as a false-negative by reducing costs a little to every non-crafter... In other words increasing costs to the crafter and taking away the crafters worth in long time developed crafting skills... What I am clearly saying is the costs being imposed on crafters is completely unwelcome and grossly unfair given the time it takes to get to the levels that are required to make upgrade to gems of enhancement and of those above...

Another point partly gleaned from another post here and elsewhere on this forum... Southy has advertised before your implimentation for selling bags full of keen gems (ie 350) for 1.5 million... As you are probably aware Southy is a non-crafter and makes his money in resources items such as keen gems and many other high end items to crafters... Unfortunately your implimentation of this ignoring a crafters long time invested skills in favour of making a sink hole on crafters, means that southy now has 10/12 bags fully of redundant keen edge gems... Simply because it is now impractable for a crafter to even want to buy thoses bags of keen edge gems because it will cost the crafter even more to upgrade them...

So this is what I am saying return the ability of crafters to use their skills in schematics in respect of enchancement gems and greater's and perhaps instead add a 3rd schematic level to enable crafters to up grade to peerless and superlative that perhaps also have added ingrediants as a requirement of crafting the upgrades to these gems NOT gold but actual items that can resourced... This will have a positive effect on both a more dedicated crafter and the another source of funds for the likes of Southy's services... The economy was work fine before this and we don't need any additional sink holes to penalise any group of players be that crafters or adventurers... If anything there is a need for more gold economy not less ...
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André Axe'm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2015, 16:59

Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 13 Sep 2018, 10:56

My shop has been making a tidy profit buying the required gems from the merchants in the trade hall. Not sure why yours wouldn't.
I mentioned this option as it is generally cheaper than buying keen gems and upgrading them, which you seem to be insisting is the only option.
The Ingot of Enhancement recipe will probably stay, but I am wondering what you want to do with your gold if you don't want to spend it anywhere.
I was unable to find a meaning for "absolute false negative", so I'll skip that part. The 20% was actually estimated from this: 1 crafter will likely max 3 schematic lines. There are 11 lines, so only 25% of crafters will have access to the upgrade recipe. But that assumes everyone has maxed out their schematics, which is not going to be the case, and some players could have more than one crafter. But overall, I'd expect that to be rare, so the final value is less than 25%.
Your last post said to make the Gem Exchanger require 4 gems to make a Peerless, that hits everyone. You also said to restore the cheap upgrade recipe, which not every crafter can or will get. That only benefits a few crafters. Please explain how that is not an increased cost to everyone? Also please explain why you are ignoring the removal of all the misc gem costs from your crafting cost calculation and the reduced gold costs of crafting and the gem exchanger changes that have been added in previous updates.
I am fully aware of how Southy makes his money. Pay more attention to update notes.
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Sapphire
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 13 Sep 2018, 15:48

Sadly it seems you are fixed on making this change to the detriment of those that have invested a lot of time in acquiring the schematics to be able make upgrades to gems at least to greater ones ... I am aware of the changes made to the exchanger and even that newer cheaper price is too expensive and will cripple the funds of the crafter still... Besides this is the now wasted at least for me the 2nd schematic in gem crafting which was required to upgrade gems... And as I said above this has left Southy with bags and bags of gems that are now useless and will probably have to dump them on the scrapper to redeem any value in them...

I am still insistant that this change is to spite the crafter that has spent time and energy in developing ... I'd much rather you put gold at the recipe end back where it was and give us back the upgrading of gems option on the detailed gems stations...

As for the exchanger and 4 peerless gems I understood this is what it used to be and reducing it to 3 where it is now I have no issue with... But you used to add weight to your policy and I only suggested you puy it back to 4 as a counter to that argument...

Personally I have never boughtgem from the scrapper or used the exchanger and being forced to do so is not a pleasent experience to have to injure... If things remain as you seem set on doing I will still not ever use the exchanger to sap my limited gold away...

Finally the false-negative is refering to the fact you wanting to make a sink hole for gold particularly against crafters... It therefore means you are applying through this retraction of a crafters ability to make them pay out regardless of their skill at the subject measure (gem crafting particularly the ability to upgrade some gems them selves) Negative because your taking away something that is valuable to crafter the false in forcing people to pay out because they have no other option, which in turn will mean even less use of the exchanger and buying of the likes of keen edge gems from any source...



You also quote on your store making a tidy profit... Am sure that was the case pre- 5 days ago... Post this time into the next month lets see how much less you make if you use the exchanger or the scrapper sales ...

As I headed this particular post you seem set on this destructive course of change I will make my way without the exchanger still never being used by my characters... And will make acquiring gems from others as part of deal in others wanting to make future items for those that can not craft to my characters very high standards... But one thing I do want is my level 2 schematic removed and replaced as it is pointless in having something that does nothing more than add 10% to the crafting of gems which nearly all are trivel to my character with a few exception being 95% success...
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Iona
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Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 11:49

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Iona » 13 Sep 2018, 16:58

I am curious Sapphire, what do you do with the gems and loot the sisters pick up on adventure runs?

Last year when everyone decided to leave the server for a couple of months Iona was forced to hunt to survive. I discovered looted items converted to cash and used on exchanger with gems picked up was far more efficient than than any other way. Certainly cheaper than crafting them unless you have the schematics to avoid enchanting oils etc.

Just been wondering tis all as see the others out and about a bit.
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Sapphire
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Location: UK England, Midlands

Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 13 Sep 2018, 18:04

I used them for crafting i done an awful lot of crafting to higher levels then sold the improved versions and saved some for future crafting placing some on my store til I either had the skill and the ingrediants to make even better items...

Also I used to find much more on adventuring runs but that kind of dried up I do not know why...

I would make dozens enhanced rings and greater rings for instance to build up my cash to hopefully later use the cash as required for crafting other things at a higher levels such as peerless items... Which have now in the last few weeks starter to appear on my stores...
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André Axe'm
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by André Axe'm » 14 Sep 2018, 09:22

Sapphire wrote:
13 Sep 2018, 15:48
You also quote on your store making a tidy profit... Am sure that was the case pre- 5 days ago... Post this time into the next month lets see how much less you make if you use the exchanger or the scrapper sales ...
Can you not read?
I've always purchased the gems from the merchant to stock my store.
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Sapphire
Posts: 368
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Re: Update V8.3

Post by Sapphire » 14 Sep 2018, 15:14

You did not say that at all... You said you buy to top up what you need that is not "always" ... That is a matter of convienence to you and now I beg the question was the reduced price just to benefit you ?

Regardless one way or another you have penalised at least this dedicated crafter and forced on the economy a "sink hole" and ignored the time and effort spent by the likes of crafters like myself whom have invested time and energy into schematics ...

If this remains as is then you might as well remove keen edge gems from the merchant as no one will buy them ever again... Take a look at how much I am selling 10's of keen edge gems on my 133% store and they have already not been sold and probably never will be even though they are some 33,000 less than the craft merchant would sell you 10 of the same...

No one is going to buy them now to even upgrade them to enhanced gems via the exchanger... As 3 keen edge gems costs 30,000 and when they get to the exchanger there is another cost of 10,000 for using the exchange to do this... So you are forcing people to buy enhanced gems because it is 10,000 cheaper... the same is true of the greater gem though it would cost 20,000 more to use the exhanger to go from enhanced to greater...

A NERF is a NERF is a NERF and thats exactually what you have done over this matter... All you have done is make it better for yourself and cheaper for yourself as a regular buyer of gems from the craft merchant... And again I will state it - This penalises those that invested time and effort in gem crafting upto schematics 2, I am going to suggest again you return this ability to use but with a comprimise on my behalf... Make it so you need to have schematics in gem crafting at level 3 instead of level 2 as was.... Also keep your pricing structure from the craft merchance and the exchanger...

I would be more than willing to take a 3rd schematic in gem crafting to do the same as I have done previously and make greater gems through enhanced gems and through keen edge gems...
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