Fallout 4... yay or nay??

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ball0fire
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by ball0fire » 13 Nov 2015, 18:54

why did i get an email notification aboot this thread when i havnt even posted in it?....well i have now... but i didnt before

edit: also liked my own post yeeeeee
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Sathias
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Sathias » 13 Nov 2015, 18:55

ball0fire wrote:why did i get an email notification aboot this thread when i havnt even posted in it?....well i have now... but i didnt before
It was split from the main Fallout 4 thread? Did you post in that one?
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ball0fire
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by ball0fire » 13 Nov 2015, 18:56

Sathias wrote:
ball0fire wrote:why did i get an email notification aboot this thread when i havnt even posted in it?....well i have now... but i didnt before
It was split from the main Fallout 4 thread? Did you post in that one?

ooh possibly mebbe, i dunno i'll say yes

also jeeesus fast on the reply there, i edited it in less than 30 seconds and you already replied
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Sathias
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Sathias » 13 Nov 2015, 19:50

I wasn't monitoring the forums I promise :lol: I just happened to alt-tab out of the game just after you posted :)
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NotThatDoug
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by NotThatDoug » 14 Nov 2015, 18:15

Woo I got the Fallout anouncer pack for DOTA 2 even though I didn't actually buy Fallout through steam, just activated the code...

Now if only I played DOTA 2 I could tell you if its good or not.
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Kendrite
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Kendrite » 14 Nov 2015, 20:23

Got a voucher to get Fallout 4 from JB but they've sold out...said should have more stock in a week or two. Just have to put on my patient face.
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korbain
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by korbain » 15 Nov 2015, 04:29

God damn these arguments are over nothing. Its as simple as did you like fallout 3? if you say yes, you will like fallout 4. If not, it's not for you.

PS. 30 hours in, loving it. Base building is consuming my life haha
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Matty
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Matty » 15 Nov 2015, 04:59

korbain wrote:God damn these arguments are over nothing. Its as simple as did you like fallout 3? if you say yes, you will like fallout 4. If not, it's not for you.

PS. 30 hours in, loving it. Base building is consuming my life haha
Fallout 4: Sims. Made a sweet penthouse corner room for me. Ran out of materials so i'll need to go scavenging.
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mudslid3
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by mudslid3 » 15 Nov 2015, 07:41

korbain wrote:God damn these arguments are over nothing. Its as simple as did you like fallout 3? if you say yes, you will like fallout 4. If not, it's not for you.

PS. 30 hours in, loving it. Base building is consuming my life haha
I agree, very much like FO3 which I though was great!
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Stoibs
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Stoibs » 15 Nov 2015, 08:42

korbain wrote:God damn these arguments are over nothing.
Except for literally every point that has been brought up. It's clear someone like you seemingly didn't even bother or care to read the actual argument or thread if you aren't even interested in the discussion at hand and just want to be 'that guy' to make an edgy comment that falls flat.
korbain wrote: Its as simple as did you like fallout 3? if you say yes, you will like fallout 4. If not, it's not for you.
It's more a case of someone like me loving proper RPG's and what Fallout actually started off as and the origins of the franchise by more than enjoying FO1+2 to the point where they are on my theoretical top ten games list of all time - and then have to watch slowly as this once favourite series and genre as a whole gets more and more cut down and altered and casualised (Even with other cRPG's too, so it's an all encompassing AAA problem) to the point where it is literally straight up not at all resembling the same thing that I enjoyed and eventually gets to where I see no similarities or redeeming qualities at all, personally.
It's like - diehard motorsports and racing fans might enjoy Need for speed or Grand Turismo; if these franchises went the way of Twisted metal or Vigilante 8 by basically genre shifting into something almost entirely different, do you think the same original audience would still appreciate what has become of their game and how they liked to play it?

I guess it's just something that you won't understand and indeed be doing these handwaving and somewhat insulting *You're complaining about nothing* thowaway lines when you clearly don't feel passionately the same way about a particular thing that has been changed and ruined so much over the years - especially more annoying when it becomes so increasingly harder for us to seek out and obtain what we used to have from yesteryear and need to rely on indies or crowdfunding, despite the fact that - as I pointed out in all my previous posting - these are still a very damn profitable, popular and non-niche genre and are types of games which are still indeed desired by a very large and hungry audience willing to consume them.
(Which in turn makes the *This isn't for you, go and play something else then* comments also quite annoying since this WAS originally a game for me.. :x )
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Anon. E. Moose
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Anon. E. Moose » 15 Nov 2015, 08:59

I think Fallout 4 is something quite close to the perfect example of how sequels should be done. The differences between 3 and NV felt few and far between at times, a case of don't fix what isn't broken.
Bethesda took a risk with some design choices in 4, but imo that's payed off to create a fun and fresh sequel that doesn't feel like a carbon copy of previous titles, something sequels do too much nowadays.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by vcatkiller » 15 Nov 2015, 11:21

Once again people are getting arguments confused. We are not arguing over how great Fallout 4 is. Fallout 4 looks like an awesome game. But it's not an RPG. That's the point. It's a really awesome ARPG or FPS with some RPG elements attached.

It pains me every time I see comments like "Stop hating on it!" when clearly nobody is hating on it.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Anon. E. Moose » 15 Nov 2015, 11:49

I'm not going to argue the genre of the game as it's fairly obvious one side isn't going to persuade the other, I'd still call it an RPG as I get to role play, I can name, build and dress my character how I like, I can act like an a-hole, I can be a saviour, or I could do none of that.

I'm just stating that in my opinion, the alleged lack of "true" RPG features from the game that were present in previous games isn't a bad thing and in fact, work's incredibly well with everything else the game has to offer.

But that's all this is, my opinion.
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Matty
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Matty » 15 Nov 2015, 13:48

It is an RPG, it just doesn't fit your narrow view of what you think an RPG should be.
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GamingKen
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by GamingKen » 15 Nov 2015, 14:03

Stoibs wrote:proper RPG's
The problem here is you are confusing opinion with fact. You cannot state what is a proper RPG to others, as it is your personal preference and opinion that defines for you what is "proper" RPG, and thus irrelevant to anyone else who has their own idea on what is "proper RPG" experience. It's why this debate will never have a conclusion, because there is not set-in-stone rule. It is personal opinion.

To take things back to your Gran Turismo reference, which falls apart because you have gone for exaggerated extremes - It is more like the discussions people have between what is a "racing sim". Every man and his dog who has driven the likes of Gran Turismo, Assetto Corsa, rFactor, Live For Speed, iRacing, Project Cars etc etc is going to debate with others over which is the true "sim experience". This game is better than that one, this one has better tyre simulation, that one feels like driving on ice, something about physics blah blah. The fact is, it comes down to what you as an individual "feel". There is no correct answer, is is all personal opinion determined by your own experience and values.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by vcatkiller » 15 Nov 2015, 14:29

In both cases there are still clear dot points that indicate what is and isn't a racing sim/RPG. Could I argue that Mario Kart is a racing sim? It has vehicles you race around on a track, and opponents you race against. In fact some of the later ones even have the ability to tweak your kart by selecting different tire types and various other components. If I suggested that to somebody who've played racing sims for ages, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh in my face. It's a racing game, and a good one too, but by no means is it a simulator.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by NotThatDoug » 15 Nov 2015, 14:36

Stoibs wrote:(Which in turn makes the *This isn't for you, go and play something else then* comments also quite annoying since this WAS originally a game for me.. :x )
Did Bethesda send you a list of all the features they were putting in the game at E3 then text you just before November 10 and be like Yo, we are taking that stuff out, we dont you to play our game."?
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Anon. E. Moose
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Anon. E. Moose » 15 Nov 2015, 14:49

I know I said I wouldn't get involved, but:
"A role-playing game (RPG) is a genre of video game where the gamer controls a fictional character (or characters) that undertakes a quest in an imaginary world. Defining RPGs is very challenging due to the range of hybrid genres that have RPG elements."
That last part is very true for this conversation.
Call me cynical, but isn't the first part EXACTLY what you do in Fallout?
Last edited by Anon. E. Moose on 15 Nov 2015, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by GamingKen » 15 Nov 2015, 14:50

vcatkiller wrote:In both cases there are still clear dot points that indicate what is and isn't a racing sim/RPG. Could I argue that Mario Kart is a racing sim? It has vehicles you race around on a track, and opponents you race against. In fact some of the later ones even have the ability to tweak your kart by selecting different tire types and various other components. If I suggested that to somebody who've played racing sims for ages, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh in my face. It's a racing game, and a good one too, but by no means is it a simulator.
And again a clear example of using exaggerated extremes. Any value to an argument goes right out the window was you resort to exaggerated examples/points.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by korbain » 15 Nov 2015, 15:04

Stoibs wrote:(Which in turn makes the *This isn't for you, go and play something else then* comments also quite annoying since this WAS originally a game for me.. :x )
Exactly, WAS, that means in the past. Obviously how it is now isn't for you lol The game is how it is now, time to move on because this is a pointless debate. They're not going to change their game to make it like the old ones.

I liked the old fallouts, i like the new ones too. That's me though and i can see why people may not like the change. This is the 3rd game in the new style though so i think its time to accept how it is.

Why are people saying this isn't an proper RPG either? what the hell lol *brain explodes*
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by vcatkiller » 15 Nov 2015, 16:57

Mearehear wrote: And again a clear example of using exaggerated extremes. Any value to an argument goes right out the window was you resort to exaggerated examples/points.
Yep, because using exaggeration to drive home a point instantly means I'm wrong.
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Matty
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Matty » 15 Nov 2015, 17:03

vcatkiller wrote:
Mearehear wrote: And again a clear example of using exaggerated extremes. Any value to an argument goes right out the window was you resort to exaggerated examples/points.
Yep, because using exaggeration to drive home a point instantly means I'm wrong.
Let me try!

In fallout 1 you shoot people. In doom you shoot people. Fallout 1 is a shooter. They ruined Fallout by putting in talking and stuff, bring fallout back to it's roots!

See Vcatkiller? Fallout was never an RPG.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by NotThatDoug » 15 Nov 2015, 17:17

Matty wrote:
vcatkiller wrote:
Mearehear wrote: And again a clear example of using exaggerated extremes. Any value to an argument goes right out the window was you resort to exaggerated examples/points.
Yep, because using exaggeration to drive home a point instantly means I'm wrong.
Let me try!

In fallout 1 you shoot people. In doom you shoot people. Fallout 1 is a shooter. They ruined Fallout by putting in talking and stuff, bring fallout back to it's roots!

See Vcatkiller? Fallout was never an RPG.
It goes deep than that, Doom has sound, Pong has sound.
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Stoibs » 15 Nov 2015, 18:05

Anon. E. Moose wrote:
"A role-playing game (RPG) is a genre of video game where the gamer controls a fictional character (or characters) that undertakes a quest in an imaginary world. Defining RPGs is very challenging due to the range of hybrid genres that have RPG elements."
That last part is very true for this conversation.
Call me cynical, but isn't the first part EXACTLY what you do in Fallout?
The thing here is that the first part is ridiculously vague and can be applied to basically every genre though.
In Shadow Warrior I take control of a fictional character that undertakes a quest in an imaginary world.
In Warcraft 3 I take control of a fictional character (and certainly characters) to undertake a quest in an imaginary world.
In Metal Gear solid I take control of a fictional character to undertake a quest in an extremely out-there imaginary world.
etc.
I'm actually curious as to where that quote comes from since the first sentence is just pointless for what is attempting to describe something, being that the genre obviously makes up quite a bit more than that.
Second sentence rings truer, and is why this will indeed never go anywhere (A point that I was the first to bring up and put forward days ago, thank you Mearehear. I'm certainly not the one that needs to be told that, yet I need to keep bringing it up and responding to people who want to forever drag this discussion out for whatever reason. Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'exaggerated extremes')
It's just that being a long time fan of cRPG's on this platform tends to make it much easier to mold the ideas and craft a vision of what the majority tends to agree upon as to what is indeed the general consensus and what traditionally makes one and what doesn't - whereas several people here (Like matty admitting that he would find something that has more expanded dialogue and actually requires more reading and roleplaying to be 'boring' for instance) clearly haven't been around playing and lending their experiences to this long existed and established genre to be taking the high ground and telling me that I have a 'narrow view' for whatever misguided reason.
And once again the fact that this seems to be such a point of contention around the entirety of the internet in loads of reviews and people's opinions as opposed to 'just a few guys here' means that it obviously has merit and is dividing people in the first place enough to cause doubt and be talked about like this.
korbain wrote: Why are people saying this isn't an proper RPG either? what the hell lol *brain explodes*
Not trying to be overly rude here but you're going around in circles and we've been doing basically nothing but talking about this exact point for a while now. I and others have made several lengthy points and went into reasonings and explanations quite a bit within the thread. This is the movie equivalent of you being Zoolander and saying "But why Male models?!".
NotThatDoug wrote: Did Bethesda send you a list of all the features they were putting in the game at E3 then text you just before November 10 and be like Yo, we are taking that stuff out, we dont you to play our game."?
I gotta be honest, I've re-read that a few times, and even accounting for what appears to be a broken sentence and missing word(s) at the end there, I don't quite understand what you are saying. Clearly I was talking about Fallout originally being a game for someone like me that I enjoyed, which has since been continuously and surely moved away from what I liked about it in the first place eventually to the product we have now, and such comments like *This isn't for you* are annoying on multiple levels, first being what I originally said about AAA studios not even making these much anymore, secondly because it's like; well, what the hell *do* I move onto then if this is the standard that these big studios are going to constantly adhere to for any and all other genres or franchises that I enjoy or decide to 'move on to' by watching them constantly morph into something undesirable and not at all what drew me in in the first place? (Dragon age for instance, first one was half decent, played demos of and seen footage of the rest and they look awful to me.)
Torment is about the only other upcoming thing I can think of that looks good, after that it's anyone's guess as to where I 'move on' to next in this current state of the industry.

It's all very well and good to be on the side and camp of people who actually like all the streamlining and casualization and questionable game mechanics that FO4 and these games in general do these days and to be unsympathetic to the plight of the rest of us, but it's a pretty shitty feeling to be over here and watch all these things you once loved fade away and welcome all these unwanted changes, and even be edged out by all these new people and be told to "Fuck off and play something else, this isn't yours anymore, it's ours! HAHA" I have to say.
I mean, I certainly wouldn't wish some other genre or franchise that I originally had no intention of playing or had no interest in do a complete changeup and piss off the established audience just for my selfish sake, for instance.
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Anon. E. Moose
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Re: Fallout 4... yay or nay??

Post by Anon. E. Moose » 15 Nov 2015, 18:09

I got the definition from Google, not the best source but what you said proves my point, the term RPG is vague and can be applied to many things, including Fallout 4. A game that at its heart, is more RPG than Metal Gear Solid, Warcraft 3 and especially Mario Kart will ever be.
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