The NBN thread

n1cholas
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 18 Nov 2017, 17:20

boars wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 13:51
If you're not getting FTTH then there seems like little to no point getting a faster plan if your primary time of use is peak hours. :\
I can't give too many details (I don't want to get people in trouble) but I have spoken to people involved in the formulation of two RSP's internet plans and the poor performance and reliability of FTTN and HFC resulting in much higher support costs is being averaged across NBN users and does affect FTTP plans which are priced higher accordingly and subsiding FTTN/HFC users.

The comical part is that FTTP users are getting a better quality service at a given speed tier for less outlay from the RSPs than for the same RSP to provide a service from the same speed tier on FTTN/HFC.

Hopefully DOCSIS3.1 improves the situation for HFC users but it won't overcome the issue that HFC is a shared medium so some slowdown in peak times will likely still be an issue.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Ralph Wiggum » 20 Nov 2017, 01:24

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This. This is my brand new spanking NBN. Thanks for nothing Tony Abbott :roll:

I live in suburban Perth, ISP is Aussie Broadband. Apparently I live 800m from the nearest node.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mini » 20 Nov 2017, 09:24

What speed option are you on?
But that is just ADSL... nothing better...
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by boars » 20 Nov 2017, 13:34

My girlfriend was talking to a patient from nigeria and she said she was shocked at how bad our internet is.

Apparently it's better there.

It's sad that my internet struggles to be ADSL quality.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Artful-dodgeR » 20 Nov 2017, 14:09

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Was 48/15 when we first connected :-/

Lets hope it doesn't keep dropping...
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Kendrite
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Kendrite » 20 Nov 2017, 14:26

This is what I get with my 25/25 Lightning Broadband connection:

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It does fluctuate but I think I'll stick with it over the NBN for now.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 20 Nov 2017, 14:40

iiNet wrote to me to tell me not to worry about the NBN because the VDSL2 connection that's part of TransACT's network was superior to it. Sad.
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n1cholas
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 20 Nov 2017, 17:25

Ralph Wiggum wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 01:24
Image

This. This is my brand new spanking NBN.
What steps have you taken to troubleshoot?

That's a really low result.
boars wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 13:34
My girlfriend was talking to a patient from nigeria and she said she was shocked at how bad our internet is.

Apparently it's better there.
A lot of places have low broadband penetration rates and said connection are in high density areas and/or use fibre.
Kendrite wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 14:26
This is what I get with my 25/25 Lightning Broadband connection:

Image

It does fluctuate but I think I'll stick with it over the NBN for now.
If you're happy with the service and price might as well stick with it.

With NBN you really have no idea of what you'll get.

storm84 wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 14:40
iiNet wrote to me to tell me not to worry about the NBN because the VDSL2 connection that's part of TransACT's network was superior to it. Sad.
Since iiNet/TPG own the TrasnACT VDSL network they don't have to pay onerous CVC charges like they have to on their NBN plans. Generally on the TransACT network service throughput is close sync rates notwithstanding any issues.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Ralph Wiggum » 20 Nov 2017, 18:40

Mini wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 09:24
What speed option are you on?
But that is just ADSL... nothing better...
I signed up for 100mbps plan, figured I would downgrade if necessary. Needless to say I’ve downgraded to 25 next month.
n1cholas wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 17:25
What steps have you taken to troubleshoot?

That's a really low result.
I called up my ISP, he did a speed test, pretty much shit out of luck. I might squeeze a few more mbps if I get rid of a spare phone line.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Kendrite » 20 Nov 2017, 19:07

Ralph Wiggum wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 01:24
Image

This. This is my brand new spanking NBN. Thanks for nothing Tony Abbott :roll:

I live in suburban Perth, ISP is Aussie Broadband. Apparently I live 800m from the nearest node.
And your result says you're faster than 80% of Australia. Is that figure accurate or do Ookla pull it our of their bottoms?? I thought the NBN was like 3/4 finished or something.

Edit: and I just noticed it said mine is faster than 89% of Australia - I don't have fast internet...I think the "faster than" figure is inaccurate. Answered my own question...
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n1cholas
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 20 Nov 2017, 19:54

Kendrite wrote:
20 Nov 2017, 19:07
And your result says you're faster than 80% of Australia. Is that figure accurate or do Ookla pull it our of their bottoms?? I thought the NBN was like 3/4 finished or something.

Edit: and I just noticed it said mine is faster than 89% of Australia - I don't have fast internet...I think the "faster than" figure is inaccurate. Answered my own question...
You have to keep in mind Australia has some of the lowest broadband speeds in the developed world.

Even a lowly 25/5mbps connection is amazing compared to the typical ADSL2+ 4.7mbps/700kbps connection.

The comical part is that by the time the NBN is complete Australia's standing in global internet speed rankings might have not improved or gone backwards as other countries rollout FTTP and DSL speeds in Australia will decrease over time as the decrepit copper network that is many decades old is degrading.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Disruptor4 » 23 Nov 2017, 11:03

Shit, my ADSL2 is so slow I'd be happy with 12/1! It's painfully funny listening to all the complaints about speeds when I'd be happy with the lowest speed tier!
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by bender » 23 Nov 2017, 11:26

Internode contacted me the other day, telling me they had upgraded my node or exchange capacity (they said exchange, but does that make sense?) from 700mbit to 800mbit. They wanted me to let them know if it fixed the issue. I have been running tests every night since then. It has made some difference, but there are still bad nights:

Prior to upgrade:
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Post upgrade:
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This is on one of the least congested nights i have seen:
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I suspect the nodes are optimised to maximise throughput. So when they get congested, latency suffers. Honestly, I would be happy with half the speed or less, but minimal latency.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by boars » 23 Nov 2017, 22:06

Disruptor4 wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 11:03
Shit, my ADSL2 is so slow I'd be happy with 12/1! It's painfully funny listening to all the complaints about speeds when I'd be happy with the lowest speed tier!
I can relate to this, having no net at all for 6 months was terrible, the year preceding that I only had terribly slow adsl - 2km from brisbane CBD...... not even fast enough to do a single stream of netflix.

Having said all that, the current state of NBN is hardly something worth celebrating.
Something will always beat nothing but god, for the money being spent, you'd kind of hope we were getting something better :(
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n1cholas
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 24 Nov 2017, 11:33

bender wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 11:26
Internode contacted me the other day, telling me they had upgraded my node or exchange capacity (they said exchange, but does that make sense?) from 700mbit to 800mbit.
When a nodes backhaul is upgraded it is by a magnitude of Gbps.

AFAIK ISP's don't pay a fee for node backhaul bandwidth which is one of the reasons why NBN is so lackadaisical when it comes to upgrading node backhaul as there isn't any money in it for NBN only additional costs.

An increase from 700mbit to 800mbit sounds low for additional CVC bandwidth but given how widespread congestion is it's possible Internode/TPG really are that cheap.
bender wrote:
23 Nov 2017, 11:26
I suspect the nodes are optimised to maximise throughput. So when they get congested, latency suffers. Honestly, I would be happy with half the speed or less, but minimal latency.
I don't think any prioritisation is applied to data on congested node backhaul, lived experience would seem to back this up as people on nodes with congested backhaul complain about VoIP being delayed, cutting out and/ or not working to the extent it is not usable at all along with all other internet traffic.

It's more likely that when CVC bandwidth is exhausted data is queued causing the delay with the likely exception being VoIP packets which are prioritised.

What we have now isn't really a National Broadband Network.

Malcolm Turnbull's Mess is like building a gravel highway that often gets washed out in winter (water egress in pits) and limits the amount of cars and the speed at which said cars can travel. The MTM will easily go down as one of the biggest infrastructure debacles in Australian history and the truth will eventually come out to the detriment of the mendacious LNP.

Since MTM was connected to my premises via FTTN it has only gotten worse with sync rates dropping and CVC congestion increasing over time to the point I'm going to wait until January/February and if performance is still poor I'll be downgrading to a 25/5mbps plan. No point paying extra for theoretical speeds that are never achieved when I actually use the net.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by bender » 24 Nov 2017, 19:33

n1cholas wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 11:33
AFAIK ISP's don't pay a fee for node backhaul bandwidth which is one of the reasons why NBN is so lackadaisical when it comes to upgrading node backhaul as there isn't any money in it for NBN only additional costs.

An increase from 700mbit to 800mbit sounds low for additional CVC bandwidth but given how widespread congestion is it's possible Internode/TPG really are that cheap.
Hmm, so I guess thats why congestion is happening, both the ISP's and NBN are trying to skimp as much as possible. I wonder if the CVC bandwidth internode support mentioned is only for internode customers on the node, or for everyone on the node?
n1cholas wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 11:33
I don't think any prioritisation is applied to data on congested node backhaul, lived experience would seem to back this up as people on nodes with congested backhaul complain about VoIP being delayed, cutting out and/ or not working to the extent it is not usable at all along with all other internet traffic.

It's more likely that when CVC bandwidth is exhausted data is queued causing the delay with the likely exception being VoIP packets which are prioritised.
That makes sense. I guess a queue is essentially optimising for throughput.
n1cholas wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 11:33
What we have now isn't really a National Broadband Network.

Malcolm Turnbull's Mess is like building a gravel highway that often gets washed out in winter (water egress in pits) and limits the amount of cars and the speed at which said cars can travel. The MTM will easily go down as one of the biggest infrastructure debacles in Australian history and the truth will eventually come out to the detriment of the mendacious LNP.

Since MTM was connected to my premises via FTTN it has only gotten worse with sync rates dropping and CVC congestion increasing over time to the point I'm going to wait until January/February and if performance is still poor I'll be downgrading to a 25/5mbps plan. No point paying extra for theoretical speeds that are never achieved when I actually use the net.
The funny thing is the key to NBN success is that as time goes on people would be paying for faster and faster speeds because they want/need it. What we have is people likely paying less as time goes on. It truly is a disaster!

One thing I'm confused with, is, wouldn't this same situation (regarding congestion) be happening with FTTP as they are using the CVC?
Last edited by bender on 24 Nov 2017, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by PALADiN » 24 Nov 2017, 19:42

If it was FTTP like in the original plan, CVC would still be an issue but it would be near impossible to hide behind technology limitations like it is with MTM.

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 25 Nov 2017, 01:00

bender wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 19:33
Hmm, so I guess thats why congestion is happening, both the ISP's and NBN are trying to skimp as much as possible. I wonder if the CVC bandwidth internode support mentioned is only for internode customers on the node, or for everyone on the node?
AFAIK iiGroup companies manage CVC bandwidth separately.

Say iiNet buys 500mbits, Internode buys 500mbits and TPG buys 1000mbits and the bandwidth pools aren't shared amongst members of the iiGroup so assuming all three companies have the same amount of users TPG is less likely to have congestion.
bender wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 19:33
That makes sense. I guess a queue is essentially optimising for throughput.
First come first served basis, the easiest and cheapest to manage option.
bender wrote:
24 Nov 2017, 19:33
The funny thing is the key to NBN success is that as time goes on people would be paying for faster and faster speeds because they want/need it. What we have is people likely paying less as time goes on. It truly is a disaster!

One thing I'm confused with, is, wouldn't this same situation (regarding congestion) be happening with FTTP as they are using the CVC?
There's no doubt Labor's NBN would have been more expensive than an equivalent ADSL2+ for a time but due to increased reliability and lower support costs pricing would have gone down over time.

The poor reliability of copper based services especially in wet conditions was a key reason for NZ dropping FTTN as it was neither reliable nor delivered consistent throughput.

As time goes on and the Copper Access Network (CAN) further degrades FTTN gets more expensive to maintain and due to increasing electricity prices copper will only ever get worse for maintenance and ongoing costs than FTTP.

I think Labor was banking on RSPs (what NBN call their customers who are ISPs) buying more CVC bandwidth for users on higher bandwidth plans and said users subsiding users on lower bandwidth plans. With FTTN that isn't happening as many people who would have purchased faster plans are on infrastructure that can't support said plans.

Labor's plan was flawed but it was fixable unlike the MTM debacle that will have to be completely overbuilt at some point.

As Paladin says it would have been easy to call out CVC congestion on FTTP.

With FTTN there can be copper line performance issues (can be extremely difficult to diagnose some issues like intermittent faults/interference), node backhaul congestion (early nodes only had 1Gbps of bandwidth in each direction initially) and CVC congestion so it is a lot harder for users to be able to point the finger at the responsible party and hold said party to account.

ISPs know this so they've decided since they can't guarantee anything they'll embark on a race to the bottom to gain customers, it would not surprise me if some ISPs are doing this party because they know it will bring heat on the government and help highlight the debacle MTM is.

MTM is truly Turnbull's mess and he owns it, no point pointing the finger at Labor when they aren't in government and cant doing anything about the mess the LNP oversaw.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by jambo » 27 Nov 2017, 10:50

Optus NBN was out for hours on Sunday for us, and a lot of other people as well it seems.

I got booted out of Destiny 2 around 1-2pm and when we got back from a family gathering in the late arvo it was still dead.

Came back on about 8-9pm, so a pretty substantial amount of time. Some people on Twitter were talking about 12-18 hours without though!
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Kendrite » 27 Nov 2017, 10:53

jambo wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 10:50
Optus NBN was out for hours on Sunday for us, and a lot of other people as well it seems.

I got booted out of Destiny 2 around 1-2pm and when we got back from a family gathering in the late arvo it was still dead.

Came back on about 8-9pm, so a pretty substantial amount of time. Some people on Twitter were talking about 12-18 hours without though!
They were talking about this on the radio earlier. Apparently is was a really big outage affecting all states except NSW.

Optus isn't saying what went wrong though.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by jambo » 27 Nov 2017, 10:57

Optus have been weirdly quiet about it.

They only had a few things on social media saying what was going on and their support lines and websites were getting smashed. I couldn't even load the outage page.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Sathias » 27 Nov 2017, 11:02

My FTTN has been down since Friday morning, and even though I'm not a Telstra customer, the outage is listed on the Telstra Outages site. I have always chosen Internode so I can avoid as much Telstra equipment as possible, thanks Mal.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by kharis » 27 Nov 2017, 13:02

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mugsy » 27 Nov 2017, 14:07

kharis wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 13:02
wtf?
Does it give Labour enough time to get in and change our deployment to FTTP?
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