The NBN thread

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Bicketybam
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Bicketybam » 29 May 2018, 15:29

Last year I was told my NBN connection would be ready by Dec 2017, (I'm currently in a more inner suburb of Brissy - about 10-15mins from city centre) then they decided near the end of 2017 that it would more likely be somewhere from May to Aug 2018. Last month they stated they had started the build and it would be here shortly. Now, after a quick check it now states I should have it between June and Dec 2019

Fine, I wasn't going to still be here next year. The plan is to move into my brothers guest house (of his new house being built) by about Oct this year. Unfortunately, being a more rural area, (even though it is about 25 mins from Brisbane City) we weren't going to get traditional NBN, but would be reliant on Fixed Wireless but considering the levels of technology, we should still get decent speeds.

Then this was announced the other day....

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4zhsy.html
National Broadband Network chief executive Bill Morrow has warned there may never be a time when all Australians get the fastest available internet speeds, as such a project would cost “billions and billions” of dollars.

The cost of rolling out the required technology to enable Australians living in all regional areas to access 100Mbps speeds is so high, the NBN Co has "killed" any plan to provide it and has taken it off the road map, Mr Morrow said at Senate Estimates.

...

When asked what the cost would be to roll out 100Mbps across these regional areas, Mr Morrow said it would be “outrageous” and wouldn't "make any sense" on an economic basis.

He described the potential expense as “exponential” and "cost prohibitive".

“There is no economic model that would work, that consumers would be willing to pay to get the 100Mbps service, especially when most applications ... do not warrant 100Mbps downloads,” he said, describing a lack of “mass market” demand for the highest speed product in these areas. About 300,000 customers are affected by this decision.
Didn't they account for those billions when deciding on how good their NBN plan would be over Labors plan???

At this stage, I think I need to go find my old Dial Up modem... I love our genetically stupid politicians (and the fucktards that voted for them) and the wondrous decisions they make on what we the people need, or more likely now, don't need....

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by PALADiN » 29 May 2018, 15:33

Is he going to foot the FTTP upgrade bill for people who want 100/40 speeds but are stuck on fixed wireless?

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mugsy » 29 May 2018, 15:50

Parents have gotten notice for NBN works on the apartment complex. Will need to start find a cheap entry level NBN plan for them. Haven't seen anything at the $40/mth price point they're currently paying for adsl.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mini » 29 May 2018, 16:10

They have 18 months for change over. Hopefully prices drop in that time and you can find a plan that suits.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by kharis » 29 May 2018, 16:20

node has started construction by my parents back fence, can't wait to see how much degradation they get over 20m of copper from the node :P
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 29 May 2018, 16:52

I've gotten an email and SMS from iiNet today telling me I didn't need to switch to NBN because my VDSL2 connection is better. I'm confused as to why they needed to send that - like I'm going to switch to FTTN unless I absolutely have no other choice.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mugsy » 29 May 2018, 17:37

Mini wrote:
29 May 2018, 16:10
They have 18 months for change over. Hopefully prices drop in that time and you can find a plan that suits.
Yeah, I hope so too. The recent price drops for 50Mbps has been nice but some (pensioners) just need something ok at at a low price.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by n1cholas » 30 May 2018, 00:12

Bicketybam wrote:
29 May 2018, 15:29
Didn't they account for those billions when deciding on how good their NBN plan would be over Labors plan???
The plan was never to provide equivalent service over time as rolling out FTTN and filling in HFC areas costs tens of billions and then almost everything done has to be ripped up and replaced in the transition to FTTP which would cost tens of billions more.

The nation's needs and economics never came into it, it was sheer political bastardy to destroy what was perceived as a Labor initiative.

First major rains of the year and like clockwork FTTN was dead for 3+ hours this mourning then NBN had to shape connection down to 12/1 to prevent constant dropouts. NBN claim the fault will be resolved by close of business day tomorrow but considering there are no spare copper pairs in the area and my current pair is corroded beyond repair I am not holding my breath.

I remember back in the day they would tell people to keep a fixed landline to backup unreliable mobile reception, we've regressed to the point they now tell people to keep a mobile service to backup unreliable fixed line services.
Mugsy wrote:
29 May 2018, 15:50
Parents have gotten notice for NBN works on the apartment complex. Will need to start find a cheap entry level NBN plan for them. Haven't seen anything at the $40/mth price point they're currently paying for adsl.
There is very few plans available at that price point and be careful as many cheap providers have very bad congestion in peak times.

Given the constant cost blowouts with the trashworks the NBN is rolling out they are attempting to force users onto higher revenue and higher speed plans regardless of whether end technology can actually achieve the rated speeds of said plans.

Just because the service can achieve x/x sync rate on activation does not mean days, weeks, months, years later that speed will be possible and because there is no whetting current on FTTN the physical copper breaks down quicker over time than traditional Plain Old Telephone Service.
kharis wrote:
29 May 2018, 16:20
node has started construction by my parents back fence, can't wait to see how much degradation they get over 20m of copper from the node :P
Copper often doesn't travel in a straight line from a pillar/node, it often has a bundle run then fans out which is why some people 100+ meters from a node have better performance than people right next to the node whose line travels from the pillar to the fan point then back to the premises near the node.
storm84 wrote:
29 May 2018, 16:52
I've gotten an email and SMS from iiNet today telling me I didn't need to switch to NBN because my VDSL2 connection is better. I'm confused as to why they needed to send that - like I'm going to switch to FTTN unless I absolutely have no other choice.
iiVDSL and other proper VDSL networks were designed with shorter copper runs.

The Telstra Copper Access Network NBN are working with was mostly designed and rolled out when phone services were the only service provided with very long copper runs often the result.

NBN generally choose the cheapest option by placing nodes within a hundred meters of the pillar so some people even on the shortest lines from a pillar can struggle to reach 100/40.

For example the distance between my node and pillar is ~40 meters and the shortest possible line in the area would be well over 50 meters (they use Telstra Business 100mbit fibre as NBN 100/40 FTTN was too unreliable) with ~95% of lines over 400 meters. Very thick copper pairs in the area but they are over 70 years old so despite being on one of the shortest runs at 400 meters I could only achieve 67/32 with constant Seamless Rate Adaptation changes manifesting as constant dropouts so I downgraded to 50/20 to get a stable connection and now my connection can't even provide a stable 25/5.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by brimlad » 05 Jun 2018, 09:20

stop playing games now; it's all your fault so just stop and let us stream our 4k movies in peace and without buffering :P
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mythor » 05 Jun 2018, 10:19

Further questioning revealed Bill Morrow was pulling that straight out of his arse, with no facts to back it up.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-04/n ... on/9832596
Of course that was buried further down the article so most won't read it.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by PALADiN » 05 Jun 2018, 10:21

So business as usual then.

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Otto-matic Reiffel » 05 Jun 2018, 10:58

Sounds like he's looking for a common enemy/scapegoat to cover for the NBN being shit.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Bicketybam » 05 Jun 2018, 11:40

Otto-matic Reiffel wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 10:58
Sounds like he's looking for a common enemy/scapegoat to cover for the NBN being shit.
Well in the eyes of politicians, I think they think that gaming is still more in the realm of children/teenagers so then it's an easy blame.

Streaming videos is what is actually going to attract the bigger audience but God Forbid you aren't able to do the one thing you expect from your National Broadband Network to be able to do. There must be a problem somewhere... is it the (stupid) politicians that thought up this dodgy scheme (to show up the other politicians original scheme)? No... Is it the ineptitude of the managers of the scheme? No... Is it the dodgy hardware and line design of the scheme? You guess it.. No!

It's those fucking gamers and the amount of network bandwidth that they use (considering in reality most games will use the least amount of downloadable data compared to Netflix, Youtube and those [awesome - slight bias] leechers and business users that use the network). Fuck the gamers for making those innocent politicians look bad and ruining the NBN.

Next they'll be asking that we build a wall around those fucking gamers!
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 05 Jun 2018, 11:41

I'm amazed they're not blaming bit torrent for once.

It'd be interesting to see how Netflix / all other streaming services rate in usage compared to online gaming and piracy on the service. My guess would be that on demand video consumption is a bigger strain than gaming.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 05 Jun 2018, 11:42

I'm gonna guess you can blame gamers because it works politically, much in the able way you can talk about the problem of African crime in Melbourne.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 05 Jun 2018, 15:40

Shocked. I'm shocked.

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/ ... ce/9836492
The parliamentary committee heard today that high-definition video streaming was chewing through data on the fixed wireless network.

i.e. Netflix

In fact, the NBN acknowledged this in March last year, when it released data showing the average household connected to the NBN was churning through 32 per cent more datacompared to the previous year.

The NBN's executive general manager of product and pricing said the reason for this was launch of Netflix in Australia in March 2015.

The launch saw average usage grow by 22 per cent in the first month.

Private market research released in March last year predicts the number of people using subscription video on-demand services such as Netflix and Stan will grow by 170 per cent in the next five years, jumping from 2.6 million subscribers to 7 million.

But the vast number of households streaming Narcos and Black Mirror are less convenient scapegoats than those dastardly 'gamers', Laurie Patton said.
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It's our fault for the NBN congestion folks...

Post by Mugsy » 05 Jun 2018, 16:16

Last time I checked, I have been using 150Gb per month on average... Not the terabytes being claimed.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-0 ... on/9832596
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by PALADiN » 05 Jun 2018, 16:29

I'm going to play devil's advocate because there's a few things that even I missed during my initial rage at his comments.

1. Any given game's network traffic itself might be low bandwidth but you also have to factor in the download of the games themselves (which are only going to get larger with 4K assets) and the subsequent patches/DLC (which can also be rather large).

2. With the rise of streaming on Twitch, that's additional bandwidth on top of a game's network traffic for the streamer and also similar bandwidth to the likes of Netflix, YouTube, etc for viewers (Twitch viewers are usually gamers as well).

3. Gamers also tend to be regular Youtube users due to the ability to search for info on particular parts of a game (collectibles, achievements, walkthroughs, etc).

4. Game consoles can also be used to access streaming services via apps (you'll find apps for Netflix, Stan, Amazon Prime Video and AnimeLab available on Xbox One and PS4) meaning that gamers also tend to be regular users of those services.

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Disco » 05 Jun 2018, 16:30

They half arsed it, got a half arsed result, and now they're looking to shift the blame - all this shows us is that the service they're providing isn't up to the current requirements of the country - let alone the next 5, 10, 20 years where we can only expect our demand for high speed internet to increase.

This tweet sums up my thoughts:

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mythor » 05 Jun 2018, 16:50

The 10mb/h figure comes from World of Warcraft of a few years ago and is a guesstimate based on playing in a low traffic area. In real world conditions you use more than that, and in twitchier games you use more still.

The NBN has a blog post that's nearly 2 years old talking about data usage of games that demonstrates just how much less data typical games use than, say, a bog standard 480p/30f YouTube video.
Gaming: https://www.nbnco.com.au/blog/entertain ... mples.html
Streaming video: https://www.nbnco.com.au/blog/entertain ... v-use.html

TL:DR; Around 100mb/h is probably more realistic for most gaming while YouTube runs 300mb/h for 480p/"SD" and Netflix goes to 700mb/h for its SD offering, or 3GB/hr for HD.

Gaming is more popular than ever, but most people will only play an hour or two a night. You have to play for 3 hours to use the same amount as one person watching YouTube for an hour - and spreading it over 3 hours is much easier on the network.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Nekosan » 05 Jun 2018, 18:29

I actually had a box of them come across my desk to be sent back a few weeks ago, they were either netgear or dlink oddly enough (IIRC).
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Bicketybam » 05 Jun 2018, 19:47

Mythor wrote:
05 Jun 2018, 16:50
YouTube runs 300mb/h for 480p/"SD"
Wait... 480p What sort of povo bastards watch youtube in only 480p? Oh...... NBN users.

I'm still only on ADSL2 and if I can't watch it on 1080p or a min of 720p it's obviously not that interesting. Image
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by PALADiN » 05 Jun 2018, 20:09

Yeah i'm more of a "content over picture quality" guy because that's ultimately what I watch a video for.

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Re: The NBN thread

Post by storm84 » 05 Jun 2018, 20:24

Wait, people actually have to make that choice? The NBN really must suck.
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Re: The NBN thread

Post by Mugsy » 05 Jun 2018, 20:32

Those poor souls that can't get 720p... must think they have eye cancer.
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CherryRed wrote:
02 Dec 2018, 21:33
It'll look amazing shoved up his ass if he doesn't actually learn to play the fucking thing.
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