Federal Election May 18, 2019!

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Nekosan
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Nekosan » 23 Apr 2019, 00:39

I guess my train of thought is that this is the sort of thing where "supporting and encouraging" in Australia isn't really worth shit at the development end (which is where it counts, the big money and adopters are in China and the US). We aren't going to become a world leader in battery tech in the next 10-15 years without billions of investment and then we'd still be behind the curve.

It seems like there's no point in dumping money into tech which is almost certainly not futureproof and would need to be upgraded once the new tech comes along anyway for much less cost.

I also love how it's gone from "we need well designed public transport networks" to "we all need personal, electric, computer driven vehicles" during the last few years. It's 2019, we shouldnt be talking about improving personal transport, we should be talking about it not being necessary.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 23 Apr 2019, 09:14

Nekosan wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 00:39
It seems like there's no point in dumping money into tech which is almost certainly not futureproof and would need to be upgraded once the new tech comes along anyway for much less cost.
It's thinking like that that ruined the NBN.

Public transport is another great target for turning to electric. Trains already are, for transporting humans anyway. Buses and taxis will be next.

Short term thinking will keep us behind forever. Australia used to be a world leader in technology and science and then they gutted the CSIRO, among other things.

Same thing happens in the arts. Government throws millions at Marvel to get them to film a movie here while the video games industry struggles to get two coppers to rub together. God forbid we invest in the future.
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André Axe'm
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 23 Apr 2019, 22:20

By battery swapping, I actually meant you get the battery swapped out at a charging station. No need to waste time waiting for your own ones to charge. You just turn up at a charge station and a qualified person (if needed) swaps it for you.

Plug in charging from a retail outlet is like turning up with a gas canister and trying to get it filled up. Sure they might be able to do it on site, but why bother if you can just swap for a full one?
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Nekosan » 23 Apr 2019, 23:51

Did you even think that through Andre? Spare battery stores and technicians at charging stations? That's insanity.


I don't think the NBN is a good comparison Mythor, in its original state it was fully functional and high performance in every way needed at the time. Going mad for electric at the moment is more like spending the NBN budget on 256k connections that only service the inner city. Investing in the future is totally different to just throwing money down the electric rabbithole for the sake of what some people just think is a cool idea. It would literally just be throwing money away (at least outside capital cities) on something that the population can't possibly use because the logistics of it just dont work.

Unless you're in a huge city and never go anywhere then electric is just a shitty product at present, and us investing in it won't change that in the slightest. If you want to go down that path they'd be better of reinstating a decent solar subsidy for homeowners and making that (already extremely viable) tech accessible to more Australians. An electric car gives you nothing back, at least solar panels on a roof do something productive.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 24 Apr 2019, 10:39

Nekosan wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 23:51
Unless you're in a huge city and never go anywhere then electric is just a shitty product at present, and us investing in it won't change that in the slightest.
I disagree with that for two reasons.
1) There's a lot of investment being put into electric worldwide, and the uptake of global electric sales is going to shift the market whether we like it or not. So it's better to be prepared for what's to come.
2) Putting in infrastructure in towns and between towns will change the equation on whether electric cars are viable for a lot of people. Including those "inner city" folk who can travel to regional areas and bring money into them. This is true of other infrastructure needs that encourage tourism, so it would be baffling to say this technology wouldn't make a bit of difference.

You'd think a better argument might be that since we don't have a car industry anymore, and we don't stand to directly benefit from investment, it's better to wait until other countries more widely adopt the technology, that way we can stand to benefit. Or, perhaps, that it's going to be an investment with limited returns when there are other things that the money is better spent on. But to say it's a) a shitty product at present (it's getting uptake despite the limitations of the lack of infrastructure) and b) investing won't change it in the slightest is nonsense.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 24 Apr 2019, 10:49

Nekosan wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 23:51
Did you even think that through Andre? Spare battery stores and technicians at charging stations? That's insanity.
Yeah I did think it through, and I didn't make up the concept either. Swapping batteries is old, as is swapping gas bottles at a petrol station. This is also one of the options considered for hydrogen cells.
Which bit would you say was insanity?
Having spare batteries around, or the possibility of needing someone to make sure the swap is done in a safe manner?
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Nekosan » 24 Apr 2019, 18:18

André Axe'm wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 10:49
Having spare batteries around, or the possibility of needing someone to make sure the swap is done in a safe manner?
Both, not only are the battery banks large but you'd need a technician anywhere someone can possibly charge up. Pretend for a moment that those battery cells contain petrol and can only be installed by a qualified fitter, now imagine every single car that visits a petrol station a day and how many you'd need.

It's a silly concept until the batteries are the size of a normal car battery and can be hotswapped by anyone, until then it's just a total pipedream.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by CherryRed » 24 Apr 2019, 18:29

A $60,000 car that physically cannot get me from my home to my parents home even if I did want to fanny about having massive fucking breaks for charging IS a shitty product. I fail to see how that is 'nonsense' just because it doesn't align with greenie views. From a practical standpoint, it is over priced and it under delivers. End of story.
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Disco
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Disco » 24 Apr 2019, 18:45

TLDR; real world issues being ignored by greenies :lol: Honestly, not many people are paying 2x for a product that does less, you're all insane and out of touch with reality.
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Disco is fkn banned from the flamethrower. :lol:

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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 24 Apr 2019, 19:14

It's a good (and ever improving) product that doesn't fit your use case. That's not the same thing at all. :)
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Sathias » 24 Apr 2019, 19:37

CherryRed wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 18:29
A $60,000 car that physically cannot get me from my home to my parents home even if I did want to fanny about having massive fucking breaks for charging IS a shitty product. I fail to see how that is 'nonsense' just because it doesn't align with greenie views. From a practical standpoint, it is over priced and it under delivers. End of story.
I feel like there are two separate conversations going on in this thread, with one group saying electric cars are crap because they aren't practical right now, and the other saying they have the potential to be the future of transport, even though they aren't practical right now. I mean think about how much your phone has changed in 10 years.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 24 Apr 2019, 21:10

CherryRed wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 18:29
A $60,000 car that physically cannot get me from my home to my parents home even if I did want to fanny about having massive fucking breaks for charging IS a shitty product. I fail to see how that is 'nonsense' just because it doesn't align with greenie views. From a practical standpoint, it is over priced and it under delivers. End of story.
That it doesn't suit you in particular doesn't make it a shitty product - it just means it's not fit for purpose for what you want it for. Right now those cars already suit many people, and would suit many more with the right investment in infrastructure. This fact has nothing to do with aligning to "greenie-views" (which I don't hold to, but that's another story), but from an understanding of how people use their cars now.

Greenies and non-greenies alike use their cars in such a way that electric vehicles wouldn't make a difference, and there are benefits to switching to electric now (as we are seeing in other countries) that have nothing to do with environmental factors. The market switch to electric is happening because there is wider appeal to such vehicles, including lower running costs, rather than a concentrated environmental movement. Indeed, if you spend any time at all engaging with Greenies, then you'll know their concerns are often about less cars on the road period rather than electric vehicles - which would be more of the same as we have now.

The policy question isn't whether you in particular need to get an electric car. No policy is phasing out petrol cars. The policy question is whether it's worth pursuing, which should be a conversation around the prevailing trends in global car manufacturing, questions around energy prices, the availability of fuels, infrastructure challenges, etc. The idea this is Greens vs the consumer is utter nonsense that almost completely disregards the sociopolitical factors surrounding the debate to begin with. Australia can't even meet its international obligations to keep enough fuel on hand. So if anything were to disrupt the global supply roots, we'd be screwed in a very short space of time. We are completely dependent on foreign sources of fuel, whose prices are set by an international cartel. As a country, should we in any way try to gain energy independence?
Last edited by storm84 on 24 Apr 2019, 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 24 Apr 2019, 21:18

Nekosan wrote:
24 Apr 2019, 18:18
It's a silly concept until the batteries are the size of a normal car battery and can be hotswapped by anyone, until then it's just a total pipedream.
As mentioned by Sathias above, I thought we were talking about 10 years from now. On the go charging is still crap as you have to wait about half an hour (according to Tesla). That is not much better than a pipe dream either.
I see no reason to wait for the technology to exist before we think about how we are going to use it.
Especially since we already have mess of different electric car charging connections. You can already buy adaptors to try and deal with the lack of standardisation.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Mythor » 25 Apr 2019, 12:40

On a more hilarious note... Can't read the article (subscriber only) but it's another Section 44 breach, this time two people who're bankrupt and thus ineligible to run have turned in nomination forms for this election. Rod Culleton is ex-One Nation, story on him is here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-24/ ... e/11044480

This won't end well for them as the AEC was very specifically pointing potential candidates to the Section 44 stipulations. Be interesting to see if anyone from the major parties gets caught up again this time.
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André Axe'm
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 25 Apr 2019, 15:09

I hope not. I'm bored with political fiascos.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by brimlad » 07 May 2019, 08:05

the only fun thing is the political satire, juice done good..

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Sathias
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Sathias » 07 May 2019, 20:08

^ I don't know whether to laugh or cry
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Disco » 07 May 2019, 20:38

I can't wait to get my early voting done so I don't have to care anymore, not that I barely care as it is - doesn't matter who I vote for, going to get fucked either way.

Nothing like being upper middle class!
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Nekosan wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 00:36
Disco is fkn banned from the flamethrower. :lol:

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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by André Axe'm » 07 May 2019, 21:54

I voted last week in the CBD.
I'm vaguely wondering what those "Do you know how to Vote?" people would have tried handing me if I didn't say which electorate I was in.
We were a little stunned when we exited the lift. TBH I think it was the sudden brightly coloured shirts that did it.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by n1cholas » 08 May 2019, 01:01

Sathias wrote:
07 May 2019, 20:08
^ I don't know whether to laugh or cry
Damn that was a depressing watch for a juicemedia vid.
Disco wrote:
07 May 2019, 20:38
Nothing like being upper middle class!
I suppose we should be grateful Australia still has a middle class, the LNP's vision for Australia is the rich and everyone else the working poor.

For a laugh when I go to vote on voting day I'm going to talk to the people handing out how to vote cards. One such encounter during the 2010 election was comical and a little scary considering how divorced said individual was from reality.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Disco » 08 May 2019, 11:15

I just need to go get my pre polling over with so I can forget about it
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Nekosan wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 00:36
Disco is fkn banned from the flamethrower. :lol:

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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by storm84 » 08 May 2019, 11:45

I'm gonna vote on election day this year. I haven't done that since 2007 - at least for federal elections. Might even get a democracy sausage if there's one available.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by Sathias » 08 May 2019, 16:29

I'm having mates over and going to do a roast goose on the smoker, because as my friend put it, Scomo's goose is cooked.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by n1cholas » 08 May 2019, 18:45

Sathias wrote:
08 May 2019, 16:29
I'm having mates over and going to do a roast goose on the smoker, because as my friend put it, Scomo's goose is cooked.
Thanks for the laugh. :lol:

This country endorsed Tony Abbott PM so it would not surprise me if somehow Scomo gets elected.
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Re: Federal Election May 18, 2019!

Post by brimlad » 09 May 2019, 08:30

storm84 wrote:
08 May 2019, 11:45
I'm gonna vote on election day this year. I haven't done that since 2007 - at least for federal elections. Might even get a democracy sausage if there's one available.
next week there will be a map of polling places in Canberra and what food is on offer, I'll post a link when it goes live but all polling booths at schools will have a sausage.
I voted 7 months ago and haven't seen anything so far to change my mind; having 3 seats in Canberra now will be interesting, Fenner and Bean should go Labor but the Canberra seat where I am could be interesting so I think for a change my vote will count and we all live in hope that we can dump Ned the thief (Zed) from the senate, he's one of the weirdo right wing libs that supported Dutton.

but I always enjoy voting on the day, I get to vote at my old primary school which is always fun :)

edit: the map is live but not complete should be by mid next week:
https://democracysausage.org/
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